Panel discussion: What is the future of corporate training?

With a global shift towards remote work, companies are being pushed to redefine and re-establish their training strategies. But what is the best strategy to keep up with these changes? Join the experts who will reveal their secret to successful corporate training. They’ll give tips for getting started with the best training strategies and more! 

What will you learn?

• With changes in the work environment and how training is conducted, what is the future of corporate training?
• How can you implement a successful training strategy and how did you do it in your organization?
• What impact can the right training strategy have and what impact have you seen it has had in your organization?

Who is this for?

Easygenerator's panel discussions are designed for anyone who has an interest in the topic. While some of our webinars are designed more for Easygenerator users, we are sure to include valuable tips and best practices that are useful for anyone looking to create great e-learning courses.

Louise 0:02 — So welcome, everyone. Thank you for joining us for the Easygenerator panel discussion on the future of corporate training. We’re really looking forward to this discussion. We have four fabulous Learning & Development (L&D) experts here with us today. They have a huge wealth of Learning & Development experience between them, working in lots of different organizations with very different focus areas, whether that’s internal training, external training, decentralizing training, compliance, etc. So, there’s lots for everyone here today in terms of the areas of expertise that we have amongst our panelists.  

And we wanted to host this panel discussion today, because we know that with the shift to global and the shift to remote working that we’ve seen over the last year or two, training is really having to have a bit of a redesign, and we’re having to really think about how we implement training and Learning & Development within our organizations.  

So, we want to be able to share some wisdom today around the future of corporate training, the role of e-learning in corporate training, what the secret to a successful training strategy really is, and the impact that getting that strategy right can have on your organization.  

So, I’ll be moderating the discussion. I’m Louise Puddifoot and I come from a background leading Learning & Development in corporate, primarily for Nielsen, where we centralize training and I lead various functions within the Learning & Development department in my time there. And I now run a small Learning & Development consultancy called Willow & Puddifoot and do a lot of work with Easygenerator to help their clients move to an Employee-generated Learning (EGL) approach.  

Within our panelists, we have Cecilie, to start from Electrolux, we have Michiel Brandt from SHV Energy, Frédéric Herbert from Danone, and Bart Looije from Robeco. So, I will ask them all to tell you a little bit more about themselves. So, panelists, let’s start with you, Cecilie. If we can hear a quick introduction from you, and a little bit about what excites you about learning and training at the moment. 

Cecilie 2:28 — Really good. So, hi, Louise. Hi, everyone. I’m very excited to be here today. And I look forward to your questions and your comments afterwards as well in the Q&A session. So, my name is Cecilia Tystad. And I’ve spent the last 20 years in confidence and capability development. I work in large global organizations with Ericsson and Sandvik, and also the five last years, I’ve been with the Electrolux. And Electrolux is a company that produces home appliances. At Electrolux, I am heading the European training function, and responsible together with a number of trainers for the training of all of our customers in Europe, as well as our service partners and of course, our own employees. 

And we’re training all of them on creating outstanding consumer experiences. And when it comes to how that inspires me, I think that and — I mean, I’m so certain that you guys agree with me — that working with Learning & Development, we have like the best job in the world. Because I mean, we instill competence and confidence in people, setting up for success on a daily basis. I mean, what can be more rewarding than that? So, I really love what I’m doing. And I always say that I have the best job in the world. So, I think that’s a good motivation to start maybe. 

Louise 3:44 — Yeah, great. Thank you. I totally agree. I feel like I have the best job in the world too. I  feel like we’re very fortunate. Thank you. Michiel, let’s hear from you. 

Michiel 3:52 — Thank you, Louise. It’s quite hard to top this one. But I will try. So, my name is Michiel Brandt and I work for SHV Energy, which is a Dutch, family-owned enterprise with the global operations in the energy business. I work here as Global Learning & Development Manager. And I have a background mainly in Management Development. So more on soft skills. Although today I focus both on training, and corporate Learning & Development. Also me, I love my job, it’s a great company, especially the function is really nice, because I think for all of us — so not for me and Cecilie, and Louise — because we’re audience, you go through very exciting times, with all the change around the globe. Also in society, in business, I think it’s very important that us, as people, we make sure that we stay in shape and stay fit for a corporate future.  

By saying this, I mean, within our company, we have a strong vision that HR, together with the business, together with the individual, takes care of each and everyone’s employability. That is where learning comes around the corner. We all need to develop ourselves continuously to really save the bar with all the change around us. So, I think it’s a very interesting time to be learning. And I look forward to the coming hour – let’s say – to be with you guys not only the panel but especially the audience. So, looking forward to the Q&A as well. Thank you, Louise. 

Louise 5:10 — Thanks, Michiel. Yeah, that need to continually be Learning & Developing and upskilling ourselves just gets faster and faster, doesn’t it, as things keep developing becomes more and more essential. Over to you, Bart. 

Bart 5:24 — Thanks, Louise. And Michiel, you did very well to top that. So now it’s my turn to try. My name is Bart Looije, I’m working at a Robeco, that’s an asset management company based in Rotterdam, but globally located as well. I’m the head of the Learning & Development department. And together with my two colleagues, we try to facilitate all our bigger colleagues in taking the next step in learning.  

My background is in HR, but also in sports. I have a background in field hockey. I participated as an athlete in the Barcelona ‘92 Olympics, as part of the coaching staff in the Beijing 2008 Olympics with the Dutch women, where we got a gold medal. So that as a very great experience to be part of.  

And for me, I’m very happy to work in this area as well — Learning & Development. There’s a connection with sport, of course, in how you can improve, but also in how you can facilitate and help people to get on the next level. And that’s what I like in being in Learning & Development — to really help people to get to the next level. And sometimes also make them aware that there is something else you can achieve and help them to make that awareness but also look into the possibilities they have. 

Louise 6:50 — Thank you, Bart. Yeah, helping people reach their full potential is really rewarding, isn’t it? A real privilege. Thank you. And good to hear about the Olympics as well, of course. Frédéric. 

Frédéric 7:04 — So, I’m Frédéric Hebert. I’m working at Danone, so I hope – you know – because we’re trying to sell a product at scale worldwide. So, we’re operating in three big markets: waters, fresh dairy products, and special nutrition. And my role at Danone is leading the team in charge of digital technologies and innovation for learning. So I’ve been in Danone for a couple of years. I’ve been in this L&D digital space for almost 10 years, in big corporations like Danone.  

And I’m not coming from L&D. In fact, I’m coming from the IT world, and I’ve shifted to L&D maybe because in my family, everybody was a teacher, and I bridge that with my IT heart, my digital heart, with learning. And this is what I’m doing and what I like.  

In this job is we are helping people. We are here to support them not to ask them to do something or give them tasks to do. We are really here to support them. And this is, I mean it’s more true — it’s always been true, but it’s accelerating right now. So in this new world transition, being there, it’s for me quite important We are able to support them in this new world. So, that’s what I like to do on my daily job. 

Louise 8:16 — Yeah, it’s great to be helping people, supporting them into their new world. And I’m sure that IT expertise that you bring to the role must be really powerful. Thank you, Frédéric.  

So, you’ve heard who our panelists are, and we have some questions we’ll be discussing with them. There’ll also be an opportunity for you to ask the panelists your own questions. We will have a broad Q&A at the end. So, if you do have questions for the panelists, you can use the Q&A button within this webinar, within this session, and submit your questions there. And then we’ll come to as many as we can at the end of the session today.  

So, it’d be good to understand a little bit more about why learning is really important at the moment to the organizations that you’re working with. And any particular kind of changes that you’re trying to make at the moment. Anything in particular trying to implement at the moment. What’s the kind of journey that learning is going through in your organizations at the moment? Cecilie, should I come back to you to start? 

Cecilie 9:19 — That seems like an order we can have here. That’s nice, I always go first. I like that. I don’t have to top you guys. No, but I mean, I think we all recognize that, especially the digital journey, right? And for us, in Electrolux Europe, we have more or less, one or two trainers in each country. And you can imagine being responsible then for training all of the customers, but also the service partners and our employees. That is really hard.  

And when I joined the Electrolux, that was my assignment — to move us from 99% face-to-face into digital. So, I’m not saying replacing, but it’s extending, right? So, we really wanted to extend our reach and be able to deliver within the day and have that kind of like, just-in-time painting, as you’re getting, for instance, a new appliance to the floor of the store that you’re working in, that is the exact time that you will do the training. And even if maybe you got like a full portfolio training a few weeks earlier, you can do that quick repetition again about what was the key consumer benefits, for instance, right?  

So, to be able to kind of like extend their reach, reach everyone, and not just the ones we can manage to get through with face-to-face, but also that part about enabling retention, as we all know, right? That’s model of all learning is to repeat things. And e-learning and live webinars have been really instrumental in this journey. And of course, then with that pandemic, coming in and pushing fast-forward on the full transformation. I mean, that is amazing to see. I mean, in our industry, both the customers, but also our own employees were a little bit, you know. Our industry is not like this digital maybe. And now of course, everyone is digital, right? And I don’t say that face-to-face is going to disappear. But more that is used is going to be optimized, I would say. 

Michiel 11:08 — I’m not sure whether I should stick to the order. But just to quickly chip in, Louise, I fully agree with Cecilie. Although what also is, I think, important to flag is, with the pandemic, we heavily invest in our infrastructure, so technology. We migrated away from 13 different Learning Management Systems (LMS) to one single platform. And in that single platform, you try to combine all the different corporate academies we have. So, I think Cecilie is also relating to sales and in certain videos. Whereas, of course, you can also think of change management, innovation, like all the different corporate academies that are in place.  

So, we’re really in the process to build our forces, technology-wise, but also to make sure we get all the expertise and all the academies in one single place. Not only accessible for white collar, but of course, also for the most important people we have in the business, our blue-collar workers. And that is really where you see the change happening these days. That because of the investment in infrastructure and technology, that learning is becoming more widely accessible throughout. 

Louise 12:10 — Thanks, both. Yeah. And that that shift to digital is, obviously a commonplace thing that we’re seeing in organizations at the moment, obviously accelerated by COVID. But it’s interesting, isn’t it, the benefits that come with that in terms of being able to reach more people, and be able to take that retention approach that you mentioned, Cecilie. So, people being able to have those reminders. 

Bart 12:38 — Yeah, maybe to add to that, Louise. We have also changed our structure. And with an LMS that gives us more the opportunity to send out the e-learnings or the content you want to certain groups. And so, you don’t send it to all the company but you can divide that as well and at a co-operation with an e-learning provider like LinkedIn. You can really make sure that people get what they want. That’s one thing that really helped us to get the right content to the right people.  

And on the other hand, also to give more insight in. You also have mandatory aliens you have to do you get more insight in where to send those to, and to make sure that everybody has done that. So, that’s our two things that we are using. But we are also using this to make sure that as a global company, you give the same content to people you want to and we did an e-learning for instance, for the end-of-year meetings that our managers need to do.  

So, in a couple of years we choose to do that face-to-face, but now also we’ve made it an e-learning with actors to show certain situations, and how can you improve those situations. And that gives also a real benefit. So, you have the same basis for everybody. And then on top of that, you can choose that people, if they want to specialize or to know more on certain situations, or they want to learn more on what they need to do, they can ask and improve on those particular specialties. 

Louise 14:11 — Thank you, Bart. 

Frédéric 14:14 — And on my side, I try to add something that has not been said already. But luckily — I don’t want to say we were prepared before COVID — but we were lucky to have only one LMS already in place, and already have transitioned to a Learning Experience Platform (LXP). So, we had the chance to be able to react quickly. So, to not add something that has been said. It’s the most important thing that I’m trying to do now at Danone. And this is where digital can help us to move at scale and also decrease the cost. It’s to come back on this type of buzzword, “upskilling,” “reskilling,” that has been said for the last couple of years.  

It’s also to try to create this mindset in the company of curiosity. I do believe in this topic. And digital helps us to do that. Because we can at scale, I would say broadcast, deliver a lot of content to create this mindset of really curious.  

And this is connected to what I said before. My IT background, where when you’re in IT, you always you have to be curious because everything’s changing in six months. And this curve of learning that I’ve faced 20 years ago, now people are facing it in the new job. So, this is trying to create this mindset. Be curious, guys. Because if you work too much, you will miss the train. So, this is really a big part about it. And this is also something that now it’s connecting to user engagement.  

It’s also about are you’re making sure, for digital channels, that your content is consumed. People are looking at either in inform about it. So, there is a lot of topics about I mean, at least at Danone, around digital. It’s not only to provide digital, it makes sure that people are aware about it and consume the content, or are at least using them when they want on the spot. 

Louise 15:52 — Yeah, thank you. So, a consistent theme is kind of that move to much more digital that we’re seeing in a broader industry as well, isn’t it? And many of our training strategies involved that shift to digital. And it’s interesting to hear how you’re all doing that. And how the benefits of reaching a big audience of being able to have topics, like you said Bart, about, you know, your manager having their year-end reviews — something that we see in most organizations and being able to give them really useful training to support that, as well as really targeted training for specific needs.  

I’m curious to know what kind of impact you’ve seen as you’ve made those changes. So as you’ve gone more digital, you’ve probably implemented more e-learning-type approaches. I know you obviously your work with Easygenerator as well. What kind of impact has that had? Do you want me to go to you, Frédéric, first this time so that I’m making it a bit fair for you. 

Frédéric 16:46 — I mean, there is a lot of things to say about it. One of the key things I’m going to do also, which I will say a little bit different than what we’re doing before, is to democratize it. So I’m trying to break the silo. So I’m trying to avoid to make learning, I mean, digital learning available to one people, or only one set of people. Trying to democratize maximum of learning. That’s one of the key things we are doing , it’s testing new concepts. Not be scared about failing and trying to iterate on new things because I mean, what has been working for years will be different tomorrow.  

And also, one of the big shifts that we’re trying to do in terms of digital learning, it’s also who is in charge of it. Because we used to be, I would say, L&D in charge of it. I do believe that the community can now be big actors on creating the content. So relying on the expertise that is in the company, on the SME directly, so that’s why we are partnering with Easygenerator to allow anyone in the company to create their own learning content and share it. So that’s one of the key elements. So moving from what I call the you-me-we. So, you – you have to do this compliance content. Me – I want to do that. To a “we” concept that is much more collectively together, we learn from each other. 

So, I would say that’s the most element that we are doing. And then the last one — after that I’m giving the floor to the other panelists — it’s also to try to use the same concept that we have, externally on a daily life. So, what we see in our daily life we are used to that it’s tried to replicate, and not be trying to recreate the wheel. So really copying the same concept that we find outside the company and bring that inside. So, be more organic, connected, open, transparent. 

Louise 18:36 — Yeah, makes sense. 

Bart 18:40 — Maybe to add – I see a little bit the same topic we just talked about, and that’s about peer learning. And so given the availability to people to make their own e-learning, that helps us a lot to also get the knowledge of people out there. So, you can use the knowledge of our own people. And not only our colleague from compliance making their own compliance sessions, but also other colleagues who have really interesting content to share.  

So, giving the platform availability, they can use it themselves. And by using themselves, they learn, for instance, themselves. They learn a lot. By teaching, you learn. But also, really connecting with other peoples. So, making groups and then getting the knowledge out there. That’s a big benefit of giving that to the people. 

Louise 19:39 — Thanks, Bart. Yeah, so true. By teaching you learn yourself. Fantastic. I love the shifts that you guys are making. That, as you put it, Frédéric moving from you two way. So, you’ve got that much more collaborative approach. 

Michiel 19:52 — In that sense, I think it’s the same here where we believe that HR just, as a rule, to orchestrate that the learning has been driven by the business or by the function. So, I think, on paper, that’s easy. Although in reality, those global companies, I think, not only the four of us, but those many people in the audience are working in, it is a continuous journey to keep on challenging people to open up and share their insight, to share knowledge, to contribute to the learning culture.  

So, if you ask me, Louise, making a shift to digital, what are the benefits? I think, for us, it’s an ongoing process. The real benefits for now is that we can have multiple learning touchpoints. So, if we create a learning journey, or learning program, or learning path, we still stick a bit to the sort of blended formats. Not only in class and virtual, but also the different types of virtual or digital offerings we have. I think that’s a real benefit that we can create nicer programs or pathways with a lot of touch points.  

But still, for us, the instructor, lets component remains relevant just to talk about the learnings we have, to talk about the learnings we have provided, to really make sure that knowledge transfer will happen. And in that sense, I think it’s a very nice journey. Whereas, yes, in the you-me-we approach, I believe, from the “we” a lot can be shared by the business. But still, there’s an important role to play for you, me, and maybe we, to really facilitate those learning journeys, because we change to learning culture. within these kinds of organizations. I think that requires that the longer term. I’m also happy man, and it’s good news. But I’m also finding the holy grail. 

Cecilie 21:36 — No, I think for me, as well. I mean, I really like the diverse reverse-classroom piece where — usually I say that you hold people hostage, when you have them in training, like face-to-face training, and it sounds very negative. But the thinking is that you have to be in a certain room at a certain time, right? So that you can learn the theory on your own. And I mean, some are visual learners, others need to repeat things, then you can do that at your own time and at your own speed and how far or close it is. And then you come to the classroom, where you are both kind of like coached and, kind of, like, graded at the same time, right? So that you’re kind of getting your certificate as a negotiator or whatever. But you’re also being coached while you are being kind of like given your certificate, so I like that a lot as well.  

And what we try to do with the impact piece as well, we’re working very close with the business. And the business, by default, I mean, whether it’s sales or service, had both their dashboards in one tool, and then we decided that we were also going to build the training dashboards in the same tools so that we could really facilitate that correlation analysis, right? That you have both of them in the same place.  

And then things that we’re doing then, references monitoring on an agent level. So, first there’s an agent who’s delivering a good service, hopefully, when consumers are calling in having problems, and then you know, that you’re rate it with the whole NPS, you know, Net Promoter Score. So, what we do then is that we monitor that the Net Promoter Score for those individuals prior to the learning, and then we do probably some soft skills training and service calls. And then we can monitor and follow the progress afterwards, right? So, by linking it, that part, that’s really good.  

Another thing that we’re doing — and we’re definitely not alone on that — is also that we are starting to monetize as well from the contact center agents. So, they were very much the service people supporting individuals calling in, and now suddenly we’re asking them to sell. And then of course, what I said in the beginning, you know that we are instilling confidence — the confidence is super important. And to have that confidence when you feel that “no, I’m not that pushy salesperson.” So really to help them see by doing training then on the sales. So for instance, selling fixed price repair, it’s peace of mind, you know what maximum you’re going to pay. You’re not going to have any surprises. If you want to offer that to your friend or your mom or dad, wouldn’t you also want to offer it to our people around us? 

And then what we monitor then is the conversion rates on each of the agents, right? So bringing in like that, but not to put stamps, but really to look at developing right? That we’re setting them up for success, and again, coming to their full potential, right? So I think that’s really, really interesting, and so fun to follow and be part of, I think. 

Louise 24:27 — Thank you. So, building that real end-to-end strategy, isn’t it, around the whole the whole big picture of everything you offer, and then how you monitor the impact that that’s had.  

And I know you’ve done some really good impact there, Cecilie, as well. Thank you.  

So, we kind of talked a little bit about what we’ve been doing and where we’re at right now. I’m also interested to know how you see the future going. So, what’s next for you? What do you think the longer-term future is for learning, generally? And what will e-learning’s role be in that future, do you think? Who’d like to go first? 

Frédéric 25:13 — I mean, I can start I mean, I will. For me, I’ve seen a lot of question popping in the in the chat. So, I will try to answer in one word. “I sort of question about LMS,” and my gut feeling is something I’ve shown as we’re doing an event. I don’t believe in LMS anymore. For me, the future is not linked to LMS. It will be much more what we call LXP and LRS. And in between, you will have an LMS that will be operated for your classroom training or some compliance modules. But you will also have a lot of bunch of systems, online platform that are providing a dedicated experience. So that’s my first feeling about it.   

Louise 25:52 — Frédéric, before you move on, would you mind just briefly explaining the difference between an LMS and the LXP? Because I know we’ve got a mix of people in the audience from different levels of knowledge. 

Frédéric 26:02 — Yes, sorry for that. So LMS it’s a Learning Management System. It’s something that has been starting to be designed late 90s. Now it’s kind in big corporation, massively us for the last 20 years. It’s a big system used to manage classrooms, online stuff. And on the side, what you see now is what we call LXP or Learning Experience Platform that bring much more, I would say, value links to the user experience. Sometimes it brings AI. You can see concept, like you find in Netflix or YouTube about channels, bringing social part. That’s one concept. So, it’s really bringing a user experience. So that’s the first thing.  

And on the other side, you have the LRS, the Learning Record Store, where you bring all the data. And in between, you will have your learning experience. And we see massively coming new players providing learning on their own platform that you will use and consume on this platform. So now the endgame will be how you bridge the currency from a corporate standpoint, and how you get the data. So that’s one key element about the LMS. And when it comes to the UX part, a lot of things will be to really how you architect your content, how you, you build the design. So you use technique that you see outside. So that’s one thing.  

And the last one, it doesn’t mean that even if I’m doing digital for a long time, it will replace everything. And I’m always using this example: you used to have magazine, then radio, then TV, then internet. No one has killed the others. They all are working together, and we are getting the best of one for what it is. So that’s what I see. We see a balance between classroom and digital, maybe more digital, but in new format. 

Louise 27:51 — Yeah, great analogy. Thank you. Very, very clear. Thanks for explaining that so clearly. 

Michiel 28:04 — So, I think that on top of the Learning Experience Platform (LXP) — I think Frédéric liked that quite nicely. So thanks. What I think we need to do a bit more, at least in our organization is to think about engagement, right? So, the experience can be good, right? With the Netflix kind of look and feel, some gamification, to make sure you get credits while you learn and these kinds of things.  

Moreover, I think if you look at how we’ll work on collaboration platforms like Office 365 and Teams, and what have you not, there’s a lot of engagement in tagging each other, in making sure you involve the ones you think are interested in potential learning pieces. I think that’s really where we can also orchestrate more from the learning function, that you really make sure that everybody’s engaged in learning to drive not only the content piece, but also the culture around it. But that takes time and that also takes alignment from both HR and IT. Because in the end, we will look at the it landscapes we have. And we have so many different technology pieces available for our workforce.  

We need to find the right blend or the right integration between the different content pieces. So it could be a Learning Management System with a Learning Experience Platform. But also maybe with Teams for example or Office 365 world or tooling. And that in the end you need to build together with IT infrastructure, IT architecture, these kind of functions from your own company, to make sure you have a holistic experience for learners. 

Bart 29:30 — Yes, and I agree, also that all the items will still remain. So for me, it is a good example of Netflix because you have so much offerings on Netflix that you have too much to choose from. And then it’s difficult also for people to choose. So I really think that that our role will be still there fortunately, to help the people also to look — what’s your development, what do you like to develop? What would you like to reach? And to help in suggestions.  

And I see in our company as well, providing a LinkedIn Learning as a lot of e-learning, we still have a SharePoint page in front of it to help people to make a choice in all the offerings that that there is. If somebody wants to learn on a certain topic, then we can suggest, okay, others have done this. So please look at that as well.  

And systems can help on that. But for instance, I’ve got an LMS that also has machine learning, but people don’t go through the LMS for all the offerings. So, then there’s not a lot of content data in there so then the machine learning is not working. So still, we need to help people on giving direction. 

Cecilie 30:45 — And I fully agree with you as well, all three of you because we’re all saying the same way. That I think that that part about curating content and part of being like that quality person that has lived through, so it’s not just like a little bit here a little bit there and if someone who talks about it, we don’t even know if they know what they’re talking about if they have any prerequisites, etc.  

So, it’s that mix that we could be there to not like for the baby for like quality standard but also to guide our learners. And we had the exact same experience, as you said, Bart, that we started with this Netflix view on our platform. And we were like, oh, this is so cool. And then of course, you come there and you’re a salesperson. And it serves up something in Danish, which is super technical. And I’m like, but it is because of course with Netflix, you know what movies you like, you know, the authors and all of that, right? But then I’ve seen that — because now is more what Apple TV is becoming, and I’m not promoting anything at all. But what you see there is if you go into Apple TV, then it shows you what you’re looking at in Netflix, in HBO, and in your, you know, your local kind of like TVs, etc.  

But then again, we have that part where nothing is going to cover everything, right? So, it’s a mix of that. And I mean, like, the biggest learning engine we have is YouTube, right? And they are anyone who’s anybody. I mean, at age 30, if I want to do makeup, I can learn from this 11-year-old in New Zealand, right? S,o it’s really fun to see that part about the curating as well. So, I think that guidance and support and be a bit of not streamlined, but more kind, like help people get the parts. And we have the same as well, we don’t have LinkedIn Learning. We have Content Anytime. It’s the same thing, right? We have 2500 trainings, so where to start? Yeah. So, until the AI gets really into everything that we use outside of work — so it actually feeds up from what I do across my life and it really becomes on-demand and profiles — I think we have to help until that technique is up to date. 

Michiel 32:45 — I agree, then to loop back to my previous point. And because I want to make the point, but I think it helps in this conversation. Because also in the chat, I saw some questions about the quality of content, because I fully agree that part with the learning function. But for us in the energy business, for example, safety is important. So, it’s related to safety, we always have a check from the safety team to make sure it’s in line with our standards.  

But if you have to write learning engagements in place, I think people will drive the content catalog themselves. If someone did some good learnings you can recommend and you can share with his team and his peers but also maybe people out of the business. And then I think you sort of have a nice control system in place.  

So, in our organization, we try to open up as much as possible, where people can share what they’d like to share. But in the end, it turns out people are a bit hesitant. I think it’s a bit like LinkedIn, I think all of us on LinkedIn. We never post really silly stuff, right? You always overthink before you post to your audience. In our company, it’s a bit the same with a learning system. You can create lessons, you can share stuff. Also, if you’re using Easygenerator, for example, this far, we haven’t seen any stuff, which was not really up to par. So, I think by opening up, let’s see what will happen. But so far, so good. And in the end, let’s see what the future will bring. 

Cecilie 34:03 — Yeah, and I think adding just to that Easygenerator part as well, because that’s also why we chose, I mean, it’s a good name for what it actually is. Because what we wanted was the same as you guys, we didn’t just want trainers or people who are working. But we want the experts to be able to, you know, go around their own areas as well. So I think we have something like 270, 80 people and they are producing lots and lots and lots of e-learning that are then being used locally, or when we see that something is trending.  

And one of the things that I like about our LMS is that you can do star rating of the trainings as well, so. then you can get that community piece as well, right? Because if your peers have also a similar role as you are with the AI setup, right? If they like this, and they would advocate for this, then I will also trust to get that data. So, that’s helping us a lot.  

Bart 34:55 — Great numbers. Silly with using Easyenerator, but I agree on that part of that Easygenerator is in the name. It’s very easy to use. So that helps us also, people thinking about creating content. And that helps also a lot in trying to find topics and trends that are in a company. Yeah. 

Cecilie 35:12 — And lower pressure, right? It’s not like, oh, I have to learn a new tool. Oh, no. Okay, I don’t do this. But then when you see, okay, it’s like more or less PowerPoint, but looks better. 

Bart 35:22 — Yeah. 

Frédéric 35:23 — And to come back on that, that is also. something that we wanted to do. And I’m always trying to figure out how to solve this issue – it’s how we fix the shadow learning. So it means the learning that is happening without the L&D team. If you, I mean, straight to the point. It’s PowerPoint. And everything is happening in PowerPoint. You’re not master of the knowledge, you distribute document that you’ve always updated. You never know what’s the latest version. And that was the key element for us for the SME to lock the content. To make sure we are currently all across the organization when we distribute this type of learning. So, even the shadow learning, what I call, they are using this tool now to lock and secure the content. And I think it’s skilled. So, because I mean, there is nothing worse than training people on training materials that are wrong. So that’s also I mean, some If you get an amazing with the solution. 

Cecilie 36:14 — And then they’re not going to come back, which is a good thing, right? So, I mean, we have to keep it interesting and engaging, right? 

Louise 36:21 — Yeah, absolutely. It helps make things more interesting engaging in a really easy-to-use way, doesn’t it? Thank you.  

So, I know we have lots of questions coming in from the chat already. If you do have other questions you’d like to submit, feel free to use the Q&A pane to do that and we’ll come on to address some of those questions in a moment. Before we do that, I know our panelists have shared lots of words of wisdom and lots of tips already. But I want to ask you, or give you the opportunity to share one last tip or one last nugget that you think for our audience, which are many people that are looking to go along that same journey of transformation for learning as you are. What guidance or tip could you offer them to help them on their way? Cecilie. 

Cecilie 37:08 — I think that— or I’ll do this. I worked at one of my companies previously. I had a project the office had for the full organization, for the full company. And he was very set into that. “Okay, Cecilie, I hired you to do this project manager pre-model, and then the training program that goes between each. Typically, I would see a full week of, you know, face-to-face training.”  

And I’m like, oh, like, that’s not what I think is going to be a good solution. But he was, like, quite set. And he said that. “No, the only way to learn is to be face-to-face practicing.” I mean, party management, of course, I’m going to do that in theory, looking at a video, right? 

And then I got him on training that was fully digital, it was in the evening here because it was run in the US. And it was really simulations. And it was other projects off his hands from other big companies. And the way that he flipped already that first evening, he was sitting at you know, from I think it was like 9 to 11 in the evening. You already worked full day, it’s not like the most interesting thing you’re going to do. He was on fire. And to see that transformation. So, I think that you can find, it doesn’t have to be like big things, but like a small kind of thing where they feel like, “I learned this little thing” — it doesn’t have to be big. And it actually made me change or made me remember in my next dialogue with my employee, or whatever it could be right?  

So, think if you can find just a small little thing, like there, where you get this, the result is better, because then you learn, right? So, I think if you can get some of those. Then otherwise, it’s always that Miss United States competition, right? Not the right piece, in this case, it is to get your senior management on board, so that they are the ones preferably to get those “ahas” to pave the way, right? So that they really live like they learn. But if they don’t do it, then the rest as well. So, we’re going to save the word anyway. 

Louise 39:04 — Yeah, great, thank you. 

Michiel 39:09 — Yeah good stuff. It’s just maybe slightly another angle. So, the question about how to thrive and be successful with e-learnings. I would say, for our company, we had quite some user-generated content, but everybody who finished off his or her e-learning comes to me and say, “Michiel, this has to be mandatory. This is so good.” I said, because then I think people created pieces.  

But I will say just go beyond the mandatory e-learning. So, beyond the different procurement, and from ethics and compliance and from safety. But start also a bit small with some stuff related to soft skills. So, think about what kind of skills are relevant for your business. For example, diversity & inclusion, or something else, and try to pilot a bit with some interesting knowledge pieces, which you can put into Easygenerator, which you can share across the line. And I think by doing so it’s becoming more fun, and also more relevant for your workforce. Because if you stick to those, that’s a hard skill, dry materials, which are very good, and very needed. But if you want to go beyond also think about some appealing, soft skill pieces. 

Louise 40:18 — Brilliant. Thank you. 

Bart 40:20 — Maybe to add as well. Getting a group of investors together who will work on content, that will work. People who are already enthusiastic about the topic, that will work as well. And also, the topics. So, I agree on that well, Michiel. We as an asset management company, we are really focusing on sustainable investing. And by making sure that we also do walk the talk in our company, that we have a great amount of e-learning made by colleagues themselves on this topic. And then they also make sure that others will look at it. And also, the question is raising that it should be mandatory because it’s great content. So, I can relate to that as well. But getting a group of people who are enthusiastic about it together and making sure that topic is also something that’s running in the company. Those are both two tips, I think. 

Frédéric 41:18 — And for me, I will give one tip, but I will say I have a lot, but on one topic. It’s not because it’s digital that it’s easy and not costly. So, think about that first, because I’ve seen a lot of production, people say it’s digital, let’s go. And you can get really bad content, but production and nobody wants to take it. So that/s the first thing so it will lead now to making organic content before making it open to all. Keep it for a really limited group of people and make really cool production, high level production, and then raise the bar. Because as soon as you open that to everyone, if people want to use the tool and start doing their own content, they will want to reach a certain level and not be so different than the others.  

So, really raise the bar at the very beginning and avoid when it’s becoming organic content at first, to have really bad content. So put the high expectation first, because like that people would follow. And I’ve seen a question. And I think it’s quite important — mitigate the risk. What I’m saying about organic content can work at Danone on some topic, but maybe not in your organization. So, everything, it’s a question about risk mitigation. So, for healthcare, compliance, safety, guys pay attention, it needs to be validated or otherwise you need to remove it. There is some topic when it comes to risk, people need to get serious.  

Now if I’m doing a training on PowerPoint, and how to use, or whatever, pivot table in Excel and a master, let’s do it. But really mitigate the risk when you do that. 

Louise 42:28 — Yeah, good advice. Thank you. Thank you all for those top tips. I’m sure everyone’s very grateful for them. Tessa. So, we have Tessa from Easygenerator joining us as well. I know you’ve been keeping a close eye on the Q&A and the chat, Tessa. What questions would you like us to focus on? 

Tessa 43:05 — Yes, so a lot of interesting questions. So, thanks, everyone for adding those questions into the chat and the Q&A. Now, yeah of them were answered in the in the meantime, already. But yeah, an interesting one that I noticed that I don’t believe was spoken about a lot is the question, I’ll read it out loud. “Would you say that in five years’ time with a great number of new trainings being created, you will be spammed with the overabundance of training, which might not be relevant anymore? What then?” So, this has to do with training material becoming outdated. Any tips or ideas on this? 

Michiel 43:43 — That’s a good question. I think in the end, if you look at my co-panelists, we are invested heavily in systems. So, when you have your systems ready, you never want to open an empty shop. So, we’re really pushed out to make sure we have enough content in there, right? So, we push or pull as much content as possible. We try to encourage people to share and chip in as well. So, by building content libraries and sourcing content libraries, I think we can serve our workforce.  

At some point, you might be right, there can be an overkill in learnings. Although when I’m a very happy man, if the learning system we have is the first source someone with an information need is going into. So, I would like to open up as much as possible. So, in case you look for a certain procedure, or whatever not, and then quickly find the learning system, I think we do a great job. Because then you combine not only learning but also your knowledge management. And with operations around the globe, I think it’s nice if we all can bring the stuff, we have into one single source.  

So, this is not an answer to your question because maybe you come in five years and — I have to admit that indeed there’s too much information in there — but for now I’m still quite happy that we just put in content. And also again, if it’s a platform with all the information in there, we go beyond the learning function, and that will be happy man. 

Cecilie 45:09 — And what we do with Electrolux is that, I mean, we have the dashboards that I talked about before and that is really easy. Because then you can feel like you have like this line, you can take and you can see courses that hasn’t been taken by anyone for the last year, for instance, and you can like drag that to see, okay, two years, etc. And then we can look at them and say is it because they have like a bad rating or is it that they are obsolete, right? That they’re not really— and of course on our product then it’s usually, I mean, maximum two years.  

But of course, soft skills, I mean, they could still be super valid, and maybe it’s more to promote it to people. That would be the target group for that training. But we try at least to do that by looking at what the users are telling us that they don’t care about. And then see what we can do to either make it better or to make sure we don’t have a churchyard of trainings that you have to swim through to find that golden one at the top. 

Louise 45:58 — Yeah, we’ve taken, sorry— do you want to go first? 

Bart 46:03 — Just to add that I recognize the question because e-learnings are easy to make and there are a lot of topics you want to tell something about. So, I can relate that, for instance, with onboarding, a lot of people want to send their information to new employees. And you really have to be critical because otherwise I can fill in their first month only looking at the learnings. So, you need to be critical on those kinds of moments that you really think about, and not too much to people, or send out emails to people, make mandatory. So, really be critical on what to do, what should be mandatory, what should be sent out to onboarding in the first month, maybe in the first six months you do another one. So, you need to be critical. So, I can relate to the question. 

Louise 46:55 — And I was going to say, where we saw the biggest difference when I was managing that function was changing the approach from “if we don’t hear that it’s out of date, we leave it on there” to “if we don’t hear that it’s been updated, or is definitely still in date, we’ve automatically remove it.” So, getting much tougher about clearing out things that are past a certain life date of two years max, and only keeping them if they’ve been updated, or we’ve been told they’re good. 

Frédéric 47:23 — I mean, after that, I think in five years, I mean, the concept will change. And if you think about what is happening outside, I mean, giving you a straight example: Google. You don’t remove anything from Google, but you’re only finding what is relevant. So, I think at the end of the day, I think it will happen the same story in the L&D space, you will find automatically only relevant content you will have content of course, you will have to do some cleaning from time to time, but at the end, it will balance by itself. Content will, I mean, get exposed because you have a team of curators that are exposing the content and said this is the one you need to do. And you will also have the content that is also fun because it’s social content. People are using it, sharing, commenting, whatever, and you will expose. 

But at one point, for sure you will have a content that would disappear in the in the depth of your LMS or whatever because it’s not used anymore. So, it will be your choice to decide. I do cleaning complain or leave it there. But you see that already in all the system you do a bit of cleaning and the system will have the same type of logic at the end. Otherwise, we’ll have trouble with all these messy libraries with 20,000 content. If we have to do this cleaning, we’d have big problems 

Tessa 48:33 — Yes, perfect. Thanks for those answers. Great. So another question that I think is interesting as well is: what strategies are you using to increase the active participation in online training programs? So yeah, maybe most of it is organic but, any strategies in place here to make sure that people are using these e-learnings? 

Bart 48:55 — Well maybe one of the strategies is to make sure that you to combine it so do offline problems as well. And make sure that they first start, or maybe in between, they can do some e-learnings. So, you will combine this with other problems you have already 

Cecilie 49:14 — Yeah, exactly. And we also use competition a lot. So, I mean now for instance we’re prepping everyone in sales on what’s going to come in Q1. So then to make sure then we of course make a competition in all the countries. I’m Norwegian living in Sweden, rooting for Norway. And, you know, it’s fierce. It’s madly fierce. They’re like “Cecilie, something must be wrong, I didn’t get my four points on that one because that, and I’ve done it I’ve done it,” and to get that kind of engagement, I mean, sales loves to compete, don’t we? As much when you do this work like a friendly competition piece right? And we also have, you know, examinations like you have to have a pass rate of 80 and then you get this gold star thing. And then you can challenge others who also have the gold star. So, things like that we’re working with.  

And then I think that, I mean, of course, number one, the trainings have to be good they have to be specific. You have to be clear before they click. How long it is, what’s the purpose, for whom, so that you really serve up the right content, right? But then we know that it is so many things that happen and you know that in e-learning, you can always do on Friday or the next Monday. So, I think little bit like you said, Bart, so to use that blended learning setup, but also to use live webinars so if they’re kind of thinking that while you have to be in the classroom to learn, webinars can bring them there, especially like a lunch and learn, not super long, but on something that, like we were talking about before something that they really feel that “I’m actually using this now.”  

And that can then you know, we also have e-learnings on the same topic that you can take, you know, like five minutes by the time to even have like just the voice so that go out for a walk, have a listen to it, start putting your own images instead of having to do PowerPoints or e-learning, etc. So, yeah, I think that’s kind of what we do. Mix it up, keep it interesting, and engage them. Otherwise it will just be done next Friday. 

Frédéric 51:02 — I can say what we’re doing at Danone, so we’re using Facebook, well I mean workplace Facebook, for everything. So, everything is happening on groups and stuff like that. So, we have one person dedicated only to user engagement. So, we have groups, open groups for learning. And we have people posting every day. So that’s how we start. Now we have also the community, starting to post on a really regular basis to really showcase their content. And we have trained the whole L&D team on the basics of community management and marketing or online marketing. I mean, using the same principle that you find when you go on Netflix or Twitter, and you see a post. Having the same technique to engage with the community. So, it’s not just adding a, I mean, I mean, a description, but really having a great description, nice image, adding the right tone. So, it’s a lot about that that we are doing. So, that is, I mean, it’s one of the key elements to drive the engagement at Danone – getting serious about online marketing. 

Tessa 52:02 — Yeah, that’s an interesting view of it. Yeah, also, now I know that, especially you, Frédéric and others have also spoken about quality control and making sure that the information is correct. There are many questions on this in the chat, and I see one as well on how can we actually support the SMEs on didactics and on making sure that they’re adding content that is relevant and correct? How can we support them? 

Michiel 52:32 — This is very good question. But now you want an answer. Because in the end, so when you open up with the tooling, you sort of give people tools, and if you don’t support them, and there’s a risk of they don’t arrive. Especially if they’re really into their personal topic or what they do at work. But I think Easygenerator, the tool we use helps a bit, because all the time you are forced to think about your learning objectives. Also, beyond Easygenerator, I think it’s the first way we from HR would challenge to subject matter experts, like, what do you want to bring across? What is your key message. So sometimes, I just send them actually to PowerPoint to prepare the key messages in PowerPoint, send it over to me or someone from my team, then we can check whether it’s relevant enough. But for me, it’s always to start with the learning objective. And then next comes to content. And that’s quite a big change, because those SMEs normally are really driven by the content, which they can just bring across. But maybe some others have older views on this. It was a good question. 

Bart 53:40 — Yeah, no, I can relate to that, Michiel. That you need to think about what you want to bring across and also timing. So, if you if you prepare an e-learning, make sure that there’s not too much that people will have to go through. So, you help also with how to set it up. And Easygenerator helps us with that, as well. So that’s, that’s a big help for us. 

Cecilie 54:04 — Yeah. And we also have, we have like a structure that you could start where you can choose just to start, like do anything, but we have like a template ready, so that you can, like, have a structure ready. But then just like you guys are saying, we used to have just a short dialogue with them. We have a few tips and tricks on when they’re recording videos that they, you know, are engaging and that they are. And in our case, I mean, with Europe, you have to translate more or less everything, right? So, it’s also that part that it’s translation-friendly, so you don’t produce something that is so massive or so cumbersome to localize into the different markets. And so, we do that as well. But then some are supernatural at this, and they just get it right and even better than ours from the beginning, which is really great to see. 

Frédéric 54:46 — On my side, I don’t have any other things to say, all has been said. The only thing that we are doing really to, I mean, in addition to what you said, and it’s to come back on the organic way to proceed. We rely a lot on Easygenerator to do that for us. So, the team is quite aware and spent a lot of time to embark and connect directly with our users. So, as I said, we don’t have any silos. So, Easygenerator have a direct access to the end users in your Facebook group to connect organization onboarding and everything. So, it’s also relying on the ecosystem to try to work by itself. And of course, all materials to build, you know, guideline description and everything like that, but also rely on your ecosystem to do the work for you. 

Tessa 55:33 — Yes, perfect. Yeah, I can confirm because that’s my job. So absolutely. 

Frédéric 55:38 — Thank you Tessa, I know that. 

Tessa 55:41 — Alright. Yeah. So, I think, yeah, we’ve covered quite a few questions. There are still some more remaining, but I think we’ve covered what we could in this hour. So yeah, any last words from the panelists or from Louise? 

Louise 55:59 — I think we’ve had some great wisdom from the panelists, and I hope it’s been very useful to our audience, to give them some tips to go away within some thoughts for the future in terms of successfully implementing a training strategy that works going forward.